Israeli soldiers: "They are the state's killing machines, but for the most part, they've managed to live with it"
How do Israeli soldiers manage to carry out their missions? Researcher Hanne Eggen Røislien has interviewed several of them. Her research has sparked reactions.
When the war in Gaza broke out after the terrorist attack on October 7, 2023, several soldiers were called back into service.(Photo: Ronen Zvulun / Reuters / NTB)
20 years ago, Hanne Eggen Røislien became acquainted with a group of Israeli soldiers while writing her doctoral thesis. She is now a researcher at the Norwegian Defence Command and Staff College and a special adviser in the Defence Staff, and she has interviewed them again following Hamas' terrorist attack on October 7, 2023. The soldiers were then sent into a war that has shocked the entire world.
In the book Alt er tapt (Everything is lost), which was published in the autumn of 2024, she shares the unique interviews with soldiers in the Israeli army, Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The soldiers she met when they were young and optimistic are today being accused of genocide and torture of prisoners of war.
Wants to understand the soldiers' motivation
Røislien wants to understand how Israeli soldiers find meaning in the brutal missions they are sent on, and how their worldview is shaped.
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"Meaning is important for anyone who's going to build a defence. It's a truly fantastic driving force. If something feels meaningless, we can hardly endure anything," she says.
According to Røislien, the Israeli army has been very good at giving soldiers a sense of meaning.
But over the past year, much has changed, she says.
Røislien wants to tell the story from their perspective. But she has received many unpleasant text messages and nasty comments on social media. Even in social settings, she has been asked questions like: How can you defend them?
"I have been accused of genocide and the murder of children", Røislien says.
"I wish people understood that research is not political propaganda. Our fields of study are not the same as our personal beliefs. Sadly, a lot of people can’t see that distinction," she says.
Saw the soldiers on the news
Røislien is an unusual defence researcher. She has a PhD in the sociology of religion and works with cultural matters in the Norwegian Armed Forces.
She first met the soldiers in Israel in 2005. At that time, they were serving their mandatory military service. Back then, she interviewed them about religion as both a social glue and a source of meaning in the military.
Hanne Eggen Røislien has interviewed Israeli soldiers. "I wish people understood that research is not political propaganda," she says.(Photo: Marte Dæhlen)
In the years that followed, Røislien has had occasional conversations with several of them.
After the terrorist attack on Israel on October 7, 2023, she followed the dramatic news broadcasts and saw images on Al-Jazeera of Israel mobilising hundreds of thousands of soldiers near the Gaza border.
In the crowd, she suddenly recognised some familiar faces.
The young men she had interviewed when they were 19 – who at the time were mostly interested in drinking, chatting up girls, and dreaming of starting a band – were now standing there in their green, worn-out uniforms. They were now much older, approaching 40.
On a whim, she sent a text message to one of the soldiers she had kept in closest contact with, asking if he wanted to tell her what he was involved in.
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He replied with a voice message, the sounds of war audible in the background.
"It never ends"
This began a series of long and intense interviews with the soldiers.
She asked them how many military operations they had participated in since she last interviewed them.
"It just never ends," one of them wrote in a text message.
"I'm cannon fodder"
Noah, as she calls one of them, had been in and out of wars in Gaza, Lebanon, and Syria since they last met.
He had also been in and out of psychiatric care and family therapy.
He has children, but does not want to call them. He believes they are better off forgetting him. He is determined to do everything he can to ensure they grow up in a state where they feel safe.
"Everything is lost," this man told Røislien. And with that, he gave her the title for her book.
By that, he meant that he had lost everything after October 7, 2023. Now, he says, Palestinians hate him, the world wants the Jews to be exterminated – and Israel's prime minister only wants to place him in the line of fire.
Netanyahu's generation
Even though these men completed their mandatory military service many years ago, it will still be a long time before the IDF lets go of their lives.
Today, Israeli men have a mandatory military service of 36 months. Women are required to serve for 24 months.
But that's only the beginning.
Then come the reserve exercises. How many and how long depends, among other things, on the military branch and the security situation in the country. Most serve between two and four weeks a year until they're around 42 years old.
Hanne Røislien is a Norwegian lecturer, author, and researcher.(Photo: Christoffer Helberg / Bonnier Norsk Forlag)
"This is Netanyahu's generation. They've grown up in a brutal reality and have had many of Israel's biggest wars dropped in their laps," says Røislien.
Their private lives have not been much calmer either. Since the optimism for peace and hope for the future faded in the 1990s, Israel has been marked by conflict.
In the Tel Aviv neighbourhood where she interviewed the young men, they have experienced around 100 suicide attacks.
Bombs have killed friends at youth clubs, bars, and nightclubs.
They create Israelis
As these men grow older, they can formally choose not to participate in reserve training.
However, in Israel, this is not an easy decision, according to Røislien.
"This is an entirely militarised country where the population has great trust in the IDF. The army also plays a significant social role in people's lives," she says, adding:
"This is completely different from our defence forces in Norway. It's a people's army and a tool for social integration, designed to 'create Israelis.'"
In the latest poll from October 2024, only 16 per cent of Israelis expressed trust in the politicians in the Knesset. At the same time, nearly 80 per cent still had confidence in the IDF.
"They are the state's killing machines"
A key factor is that the IDF has successfully built a strong soldier culture, Røislien explains.
"It's about the language they use, which creates an incredibly detached perception of the enemy," she says.
But more than anything, it's about how military leaders manage to give meaning to the missions, she believes.
"The IDF is exceptionally skilled at motivating its soldiers. You can see it in the way they train their soldiers. They are the state's killing machines, but for the most part, they've managed to live with it and sleep well at night afterwards," she says.
Believes this war has changed something drastically
According to Røislien, it all comes down to creating strong and secure communities.
This, she explains, is why Israeli soldiers have historically had lower rates of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) compared to soldiers in wars like the Iraq War.
However, she believes this has changed drastically after this latest war in Gaza.
"It's been incredibly brutal and has lasted for such a long time. Soldiers are constantly moving in and out of combat. They don't have time to process their emotions before being sent back in. This especially affects the reservists, who aren't trained to endure prolonged military operations," she says.
The Israeli army has successfully built a strong soldier culture, according to researcher Hanne Røislien. "The IDF is exceptionally skilled at motivating its soldiers," she says.(Photo: Reuters / NTB)
Røislien does not want to describe those she interviewed as indoctrinated – rather, as deeply scarred.
"The soldiers talk about their fear of being invaded and wiped out. They often say, 'this is our second war of independence,' just as their military leaders do," she says.
Right after October 7, the IDF made it very clear that this was an existential war.
The soldiers tell Røislien that they do not believe Israel will exist in a few years.
Lessons to be learned from Israeli society
"It's obviously important to understand the Israeli army in order to understand the conflict," says Olav Elgvin, a researcher at Fafo.
Elgvin believes it is possible to oppose Israel's policies and state project while still acknowledging certain successes. He has previously argued in the Norwegian newspaper Klassekampen that Norway could learn from Israel's approach to language education.
"There's a lot you can say about Israel, but they've been good at integrating Jewish immigrants," he says.
Olav Elgvin has researched Islam and integration and understands what it means to delve into controversial topics. He has personally advocated for both economic and academic boycotts of Israel.(Photo: Fafo)
He describes the state of Israel as a unique project in modern history.
"There's no other state in the world like Israel, which to the same extent has been built on immigration that has taken place over a very short period of time," says Elgvin.
Lived in Israel as a child
Elgvin spent much of his childhood living in Israel.
Like Røislien, he explains that the Israeli army is deeply embedded in Israeli society. As a young boy in the scouts, he would go on trips to the desert, always accompanied by a soldier carrying a rifle on their shoulder.
"This was completely normal, and I didn't think anything of it," he says.
The IDF is interwoven into both the economy and the education system, Elgvin explains.
"All universities have close ties to the military. My own field, Islamic studies, is often seen as academic and apolitical in the West. But in Israel, this field is closely linked to the army and the intelligence services," he says.
It is difficult to build a career in many sectors of Israeli society if you have not been in the military.
"The military is truly everywhere," he says.
Received death threats
Elgvin is not surprised by Røislien's experiences with negative reactions. He knows other Middle East and Islam researchers who face the same challenges.
"Many scholars studying Islam avoid speaking in the media because they find it uncomfortable," he says.
They can receive messages filled with insults and be targeted on social media.
Elgvin has received death threats twice. He has also been accused of being antisemitic, an apologist for Islam, or simply stupid.
"I understand that, in most cases, it's just talk. Plus, I probably have an ingrained academic confidence. It would take a lot for me to actually think I'm stupid. But I completely understand why other researchers find it difficult to endure this kind of pressure," he says.
Worried for the children
Hanne Røislien has a bleak outlook on the future for both the Israeli and Palestinian people.
"I am especially worried about this generation of children who have experienced so much war. Everyone who has been to Gaza now talks about the children. They are terrified and desperate. Many are missing arms and legs. And many have lost their parents," she says.
Because of this, Røislien has decided to establish a humanitarian organisation for children traumatised by war.
"It's an expression of my own despair," she says.
Feels Norway has become harsher
Røislien believes this war has also had an impact on Norway.
"Based on the comments I receive about my research, I feel that Norway has become harsher. The tone of public debate is much harsher, and that worries me," she says.
Røislien feels she has had to defend why she studies what she does.
"We, as humans, need to understand what's happening. When we don't understand, we become harsh and judgmental," she says.
Many accusations against Israelis claim that they do not care. Røislien believes this is, at least partly, a survival mechanism.
"We hear it even here in Norway. People say they can't bear to take in all the bad news in the world. I think we may be becoming a little like Israelis," she says.
